Discussing topics on Orthodox Judaism.

Thursday, June 24, 2010

Messianics 2 "Are they Jewish?" "Is J-sus really anything to do with Judaism?" "Is the NT really divine?"

"Messianics" are not Jewish, let's see why...

Alright let's get a good look at this concept.

A) In the Mishneh Torah, Sefer Hamada 2:5 , Maimonides writes " A Jew that worships idols, is not a Jew- and is like a idol-worshiper for everything he does".

B) In Shulhan Aruch, Yoreh Deah 268:12 the Rama writes "A Jew that converts out of Judaism, should get another conversion".

C) In Emet LeYaacov "Orchot Harav O'kehilato" , Hilchot Teshuvah 3:3 Rav Peretz writes "A Jew that leaves Judaism, is not Jewish anymore. The only way he may return, is by getting a full cleansing of the soul through Mikveh, and through Teshuvah".

D) In "Kobetz Poskim", Hilchot Teshuvah 1:1, Rav wrote- A Jew that leaves Judaism (Including those that converted to Christianity) are not Jewish anymore, and NEED a new conversion. Not like the Rama wrote in Shulhan Aruch- one MUST get a new conversion.

According to Jewish law, you are NOT Jewish-sorry.

Also the reasons "Je$u$" (if he ever even existed) isn't the messiah.

Jewish Mashiach-

There are 23 actual prophecies about the Jewish Messiah and none of them are in the Torah (the first five books of the Tanakh):

* The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)

* Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)

* The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)

* He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)

* The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)

*****In other words - this must all be accomplished in a human lifetime*****

* Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)

* Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)

* He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)

* All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

* Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)

* There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)

* All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)

* The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

* He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)

* Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)

* The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)

* The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)

* Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

* The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot

* He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)

* Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)

* He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)

* He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9).

(Thanks to Mark S, and Plushy Bear)

Reasons Jesus wasn’t the Jewish Messiah:

* divine birth/divinity - (the Jewish Messiah will be human – G-d cannot become human – Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 44:6, Hosea 11:9, Ezekiel 28:2, Numbers 23:19) - strike

* performing miracles - (JM won't perform miracles) - strike

* taking on the sins of others - (no one can take on the sins of others – Deuteronomy 24:16, Exodus 32:30-35, Ezekiel 18:1-4; 20-24; 26-27) - strike

* breaking Sabbath - strike (JM will be observant) - strike

* sacrificed/rising from the dead - (G-d rejects human sacrifice and blood sacrifice is NOT an absolute requirement – Deuteronomy 12:30-31, Jeremiah 19:4-6, Psalm 106:37-38, Ezekiel 16:20, Leviticus 5:11-13, Jonah 3:10, Leviticus 17, Leviticus 5:11-13, Numbers 16:47, Numbers 31:50, Isaiah 6:6-7, Jeremiah 7:22-23, Psalm 51:16-17) - strike

* prophecies unfilled - (JM will accomplish them in one life time) - strike

* being worshiped - Jews worship G-d and only G-d – strike and OUT

Geneological errors in Christianity:

1. The Messiah is born of two human parents, as we said. But Jesus, according to Christian theology, was born of a union between a Human woman and God, rather than two HUMAN parents, as was Hercules, and Dionysis, as well as many other pagan gods.

2. The Messiah can trace his lineage through his human biological father, back to King David (Isaiah 11:1,10; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:21-28; Jeremiah 30:7-10; 33:14-16; and Hosea 3:4-5). But Jesus's lineage cannot go through his human father, according to Christian theology, as Jesus's father was not Joseph the husband of Mary. According to Christian theology, Jesus's father was God.

3. The Messiah traces his lineage only through King Solomon (II Samuel 7:12-17; I Chronicles 22:9-10). But according to Luke 3:31, Jesus was a descendant of Nathan, another son of King David, and not a descendant of King David through King Solomon.

4. The Messiah cannot trace his lineage through Jehoiakim, Jeconiah, or Shealtiel, because this royal line was cursed (I Chronicles 3:15-17; Jeremiah 22:18,30). But according to both Matthew 1:11-12 and Luke 3:27, Jesus was a descendant of Shealtiel.

There are 100's of mistakes in the NT-

1)Acts 7- it says that Jacob came out of egypt with 75 people, while in reality he came out with 70 people.

2)Why do they name two different ancestral lines to prove J*sus is the messiah, when it can only be traced through the father, while in reality, they say the father was god?

3)Mathew 5:17-20- J*sus clearly tells his people, to follow the Torah- where do you see Christians wearing Teffilin, Tsitsis, Shabbat, etc...?

4)How can J*sus be messiah, if it says in the OT that J*sus would come down from the ancestry of David, what god is an ancestor of David?

5)How can you believe in a book that was written about 250 years after J*sus died, how could you get accuracy?

6) There were millions of witnesses to the giving of the Torah, were there even 2 witnesses to the speaking of god- to J*sus?

7)Why does the OT contradict the Tanakh, when it says "Alma-young women"=in the Tanakh. While in the OT- "Virgin"- against the Torah, and the NT. It says in the NT in Mathew 5:17-20, that anyone who changes the word of the Torah will not be in the kingdom of heaven- how can you change an entire word?

For more-…

How can you claim that a book is "divine" if it has mistakes- the Tanakh has NO mistakes. It was scientifically proven to be divine! However the NT- was disproved by Rav Yosef Mizrahi.

The so called "350 messianic prophecies"- were disproved by Rav Samuel Levene.

Maimonides writes (Laws of Kings 11:4) the criteria for identifying the messiah: "If a king will arise from the House of David, diligent in Torah study and the fulfillment of mitzvahs - of the written and Oral Law – like David his ancestor, and will compel all the Jews to go in its [the Torah's] path . . and builds the Holy Temple and gathers the Diaspora [to the land of Israel], this is certainly the Messiah."

Some more interesting prophecies, that Je$u# never fulfilled-

Michah, 5:2 therefore will He give them up, until the time that she who travaileth hath brought forth; then the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel.

Isaiah 35:5 then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

Isaiah 35:6 then shall the lame man leap as a hart, and the tongue of the dumb shall sing; for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

Amos 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof, and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old.

Isaiah 42: 4 He shall not fail nor be crushed, till he has set the right in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his teaching.

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and ordinances, even as HaShem my G-d commanded me, that ye should do so in the midst of the land whither ye go in to possess it.

Deuteronomy 4:39 know this day, and lay it to thy heart, that HaShem, He is G-d in heaven above and upon the earth beneath; there is none else.

As it says in Mathew 19:17 that you should keep the commandments only those laws- that is where you get the fact of "removing" the laws of the Torah. But that is another contradiction! He instructed to keep those laws, but in Mathew 5:17 he said to keep ALL the laws.

Deuteronomy 13:1-12, HaShem warns us of a FALSE MESSIAH!

Mathew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Not possible!

And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

As it says countless times in the Tanakh (Look in Malachim chapter 1-12) , you may not have pictures of "idols", or "pictures"- clearly goes against the Torah.

Sanhedrin 44a, says "a Jew that sinned is still a Jew"- but if you looked in Ben Yehoyadah (Rabenu Yosef Haim), you would see that he says "A Jew is still a Jew, unless he does a sin to spite the lord. Such as idolatry." So explain other Meforishim, and Rav David Yosef in "Halacha Berrurah", the Halacha- not the Gemara.

Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Marmim 3:1- A Jew that disregards the Oral Torah, must be put to death.

The Oral Torah is the base of Jewish law, and messainics don't follow- so they are punished.

Worship of humans is considered idolatry in Judaism. See Sanhedrin 93a: "Daniel said: Let me go away from here, so that he shall not perform on me [the ruling] 'You shall burn in fire the images of their idols' (Deuteronomy 7:25)". Rashi explains that Nebuchadnezzar worshiped Daniel, as in Daniel 2:46.

In his The Guide to the Perplexed, I:36, Maimonides holds that in the original form of idolatry, no one actually believed that their idols were gods; he states that idol-worshippers understood that their idols were only representations of a god, or God. Idols are "worshipped in respect of its being an image of a thing that is an intermediary between ourselves and God."

1) Not to follow idolaters.

2) Not to follow one's inclinations or after what one sees.

3) Not to blaspheme.

4) Not to serve idols in the appropriate manner.

5) Not to bow down to idols.

6) Not to make a graven image for oneself.

7) Not to make a graven image for others.

8) Not to make figures, even for decoration.

9) Not to influence others into idolatry.

10) To burn down an influenced city.

11) Not to rebuild an influenced city.

12) Not to benefit from any of the monies of idols.

13) Not to mislead someone into serving idols.

14) Not to like a misleader.

15) Not to refrain from hating a misleader.

16) Not to save an inciter.

17) Not to credit an inciter with any merits.

18) Not to refrain from doing bad to a misleader.

19) Not to prophecise in the name of an idol.

20) Not to listen to one who does prophecise in the name of an idol.

21) Not to prophecise falsely, even in the name of God.

22) Not to refrain from executing a false prophet.

23) Not to take an oath in the name of an idolater.

24) Not to perform necromancy.

25) Not to perform wizardry.

26) Not to pass someone through a Molech.

27) Not to establish a monument.

28) Not to bow down on a figured stone.

29) Not to plant an asherah.

30) To destroy idolatry and all that is made for it.

31) Not to benefit from idol-worship or any of its accoutrements.

32) Not to benefit from an idol's covering.

33) Not to make a covenant with idol worshippers.

34) Not to favour an idol-worshippers.

35) Not to permit idolaters to live in our land.

36) Not to follow their customs and way of dress.

37) Not to perform soothsaying.

38) Not to use divination.

39) Not to enchant.

40) Not to employ a charmer.

41) Not to consult the dead.

42) Not to consult a necromancer.

43) Not to consult a wizard.

44) Not to perform witchery.

45) Not to shave the corners of one's head with a blade.

46) Not to shave the corners of one's beard with a blade.

47) For a man not to wear a woman's ornaments.

48) For a woman not to wear a man's ornaments.

49) Not to make tattoos.

50) Not to cut oneself as a sign of mourning.

51) Not to make a bald patch on one's forehead as a sign of mourning.

Mathew 28:19-

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

No concept of Baptism, or "son, father, holy ghost"!

Guide to the perplexed 1:50, " He doesn't even resemble us, with his mouth".

Mathew 10:34- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Jews, want peace!

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Luke 12:50

But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Luke 12:51

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

You guys try to convert, and Jews don't...

Deuteronomy 11:28-

And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

Sanhedrin 74a- "You must save your life for every sin, except for Idolatry, Sexual immorality, and killing a human". Idolatry is one of three, to give your life for!

John 5:22-

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

There is no "son of god" in Judaism.

John 10:30- I and my Father are one.

Once again idolatry- 100%!

The Rambam writes (Sefer Kedusha, Maa'chalot Asurot 11:7), that Muslims are not idolaters, but Christians are.

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